A McDonald's in Downtown Frederick?
I just read an article in the Gazette about how a group of officials from Frederick went down to Old Town Alexandria to study their use of retail and dining establishments and the mix that they have of chain vs. independent businesses. You may remember that last year the city conducted a survey asking residents to weigh in on the whole debate on letting chains restaurants and retail stores set up shop in downtown Frederick. From the Gazette:
At a public meeting earlier this month, the Department of Economic Development introduced the findings of this and several other initiatives – online surveys, on-the-street-interviews and focus groups – aimed at determining the best way for Frederick to move forward with decisions regarding downtown retail.
The findings came in the form of the Downtown Frederick Retail Mix report, and culminated in a series of recommendations. If acted upon, the recommendations would lead to major changes downtown, including inviting more chain stores or restaurants — possibly even a McDonald’s or other fast-food chain — to set up shop in the Historic District.
The funny thing is, according to that article, most people surveyed thought that what was most needed downtown was “a grocery store, bookstore, permanent farmers’ market, women’s apparel outlets and fine-dining options”, not fast food chains.
As far as chains go, respondents said they felt chain grocery stores and clothing stores would be appropriate, but generally balked at the idea of bringing fast-food chain restaurants downtown.
However, Aldermen Donna Kuzemchak (D) and David P. Koontz (D) both expressed interest in attracting fast-food options to the downtown, along with other types of chains. Kuzemchak said she didn’t “think it would hurt anything to have a McDonald’s downtown,” though she acknowledged that many people are against such a proposal.
“I think if people are willing to look at a 20 percent mix, I think we should look at recruiting places like [Banana Republic],” Koontz said. “I also think that, as part of that 20 percent, we could look at having a Roy Rogers or an Arby’s downtown … because it’s hard to feed a family of four.”
What do you think? I just can’t imagine a fast food restaurant downtown. You can read the full article here.
Well, I am not sure if I am keen on a McDonald;s downtown, but years ago there was a Subway on North Market Street wher the Muse is now.
I do suppport dowtonw Frederick being sought to be more like Old Town Alexandria. I have written many letters tot the editor supporting this and gettign upscale chains like Clyde’s, J. Pauls and other to anchor our beautiful downtown.
It’s hard to feed a family of four? So let’s put up a McDonalds! Childhood obesity, woohoo!
Serious question – how many families of four live downtown. I am new to the area, and live downtown, and seem to only see young people either single or married without children, or older perhaps retirees. Am I not getting an accurate depiction?
Is there some type of demographic data available about downtown residents?
Here’s some info from the 2000 census.
http://www.epodunk.com/cgi-bin/popInfo.php?locIndex=2575
“I just can’t imagine a fast food restaurant downtown.”
Five Guys?
Also, if McDonald’s opens up will they be allowed stay open 11am-1am, Mon-Fri, while the rest of the the downtown businesses are closed on Mondays and close after 5pm during the week? Seriously poor business management is what kills the local shops in downtown Frederick. NOT chains.
I am not a fan of fat food, but I nearly everyone eats and McDonalds and besides, Five Guys is just expensive ‘fast food’
I was thinking about more downtown-centered data.
Point being that while it’s easy to say McD’s feeds families of four, if the residents of downtown are not families of four that need feeding then her point is moot.
I guess, ultimately, I’d like to hear a real, well thought out reason and then I could jump on board.
Downtown already has five guys, ben & jerry’s, and starbucks. There’s no chain-free image to be soiled here…
I’d want to see other chains go that aren’t McDonalds. I think Chipotle, for example, would fit well.
What about Roy Rogers a locally owned and operated fast food chain.
Also another part of the article was about not letting residential tenants in the first floor of the buildings in the retail district of downtown. That is what old town Alexandria does.
Interesting ideas in the article. I wonder when the committee mentioned in the article will be set-up.
I could see an upscale chain, but not a McDonnalds. I would really like to see a few more clothing stores like Bananna Republic, JCrew, Anthropologie or Urban Outfitters. I have been to other historic districts and have seen those chains mixed with small eclectic type stores. I still vote for a Trader Joes in the old Carmack bldg. And yes, a bookstore would be fabulous!
In the 70′s, downtown was defined by retail chains like Penny’s and Sears.
I’d keep in mind that the survey of people on the street saying that they weren’t interested in fast food downtown, was surveying people who were already there. Perhaps the reason people who were downtown didn’t want fast food is because people who want fast food don’t go downtown because there’s no fast food there. (There must be a simpler way to say that)
In any case, a grocery downtown would be a better addition. As it is, the Bodega is already a quick stop deli and convenience/mini grocery store. The problem is their location; people are less inclined to wander into a store when they can’t see from the street what kind of a place it is. Otherwise, I would think Bodega would be booming.
I have heard so many people say they’d love a Trader Joe’s in Frederick (I’m one of them). Yet TJ’s insists they wouldn’t do well here. Why is that? Is there any way to get a website petition going and show TJ’s that this would be a great place to set up?
There needs to be a fundamental change to the business culture of downtown merchants, and a huge change in the city’s attitude towards business downtown. Downtown is busy during the day and half dead at night during the week. Restaurants and convenience stores are open, everything else is closed. You can walk almost a full block after 8 and not find a store or merchant open (unless you want a tattoo or an adult novelty gift.)
The city’s impact fees and the capriciousness of the Historic District Commission’s interpretation of it’s guidelines are a significant add-on to start up costs for any new business downtown. When you couple this with high rents (still unrealistic), parking difficulties (= no Banana Republic/J Crew, etc), there is no advantage other than civic for retail chains downtown.
The difference between Frederick and Alexandria is more than just income and location based. There is a huge difference in vision. Here we preserve the past at the cost of balanced growth and modernization. Alexandria understands that downtown preservation is only affordable if you have the tax and business base to pay for it. In turn, the “Old Town Feel” grows in value as more and more businesses locate downtown and proerty values and tax bases rise.
Dancing cucumber you hit is right on the head. Yes and I think chipotle and Baja Fresh would make fantastic addition as well and the clothing stores you mentioned. Fred Rocks…many people on here may not remember those days when there was a JCPenney, Sears and other national retailers. I was just a little kid but I loved going to Sears and getting the “Wish Book” and driving my mother crazy with the “I Wants.”
I live dowtown and on my street alone there are are least 10 families with 2+ kids. Not to mention the families I know of downtown –and for me downtown means beyond 3rd street, that can’t afford to eat at the majority of restaurants within walking distance. And what about families of four that visit downtown? Most of the places dowtown add up quickly– and I wonder what current restaurants downtown will be hurt as dining out trends change in the current/future economic climate. While I am am not keen on Mickey D’s or other greasy fast food, Chipolte is a different story. And if something like that helps keep downtown viable and attractive to more people, so be it. AND, give us a grocery store already! That’s what is most needed.
Actually there used to be a McDonalds on East Street just up from Shab Row. It was a mini one. It closed though. I am am hoping there is soon a grocery store downtonw as well. It may take a while as our economy is in the toilet! I think the property sout of the creek and next to the condos would make a great Clydes….imagine ” Clydes of Carroll Creek.” they already have a great patio area there just waiting. Frederick can definately support it!!
There needs to be a nice Chinese restaurant downtown.
You are right Jim. That place in the 100 block of Market Street (across the street from Brewer’s Alley) that used to be a Chinese restaurant has been empty for forever. We went there once when it was open and Jim got sushi and got about halfway through it and realized that there was mouse poop on the sushi tray. Anything would be an improvement!
While I wouldn’t necessarily want a McDonalds, there needs to be some more affordable food offerings downtown.
There’s more than a fair share of $10 for lunch places downtown. Gets harder to support local businesses when I can do a meal and a half for half of that at a chain just out of downtown.
We are surrounded by chains we don’t need anymore chains. Most of Fredericks money, I would think, is just outside of downtown so no one but the small amount of residents who live there are going to do their daily shopping there. Downtown is a recreational destination. And a place for hard to find shops.
I love the restaurants they are the only real places to eat.
The other problem is the landlords of these empty buildings. Maybe it’s their right , but they don’t want to talk to anybody who doesn’t have a million dollars to show.
I have to disagree–a truly vibrant downtown is more than a recreational destination–it’s a place a community lives, works, plays and shops. Think of southern cities like Richmond 15+ years ago–downtown emptied out when the workers went home. A concerted effort has been going on there to bring in a variety of affordable food and retail, not to mention renovating buildings and adding grocery stores. And while I love downtown restaurants, my family will not be able to support them as often as we once did due to the economy and I doubt we are the only ones. Not that we are heading to chains either (except Chipolte!) I know I am off topic–it’s just that chains v. no chains is only one part of the downtown discussion. Like South St. and others said–the empty buildings are a huge problem as are the decaying buildings–thanks in part to one of most difficult HDCs I have ever encountered. Sorry for the soapbox, but downtown is one of the most precious commodities Frederick has and I hate to see it stagnating.
Lizfrog, the owners of that dirty, dilapidated, downright pathetic N. Market Street property–currently outfitted with an “Asiana” sign on its storefront–are none other than Myung D. and Duk H. Ro.
The former is Dr. Myung D. Ro, a Frederick anesthesiologist who practices on Seventh Street.
Many downtown businessowners refer to his wife, Duk, by the nickname of “The Dragon Lady,” allegedly because she can be very tough on tenants and she plays hardball with city officials.
The Ro’s own several downtown properties. City officials have tried and tried to force them to rent out (or at least freshen up the appearance) of the long-empty Asiana property on Market St., but the Ros flat-out refuse.
Some business owners say the Ro’s asking price for rent is way too high. Some speculate they can continue to leave the Asiana property unleased because the Ros allegedly use it as a tax write-off.
That N. Market property is the worst around. It’s a disgrace, but the Duk Ro is in the driver’s seat and she isn’t going for Miss Congeniality. She wins, Frederick loses.
If you want to get an insight into her do a search on the Maryland Case Search website:
http://casesearch.courts.state.md.us/inquiry/inquirySearch.jis
85+ entries for her.
She is trifling!
We are a family with four kids that lives downtown and can rarely afford to eat out there. Now that Philly Cheesesteak is gone, the only place we can take all the kids for under 40 (for all of us) is Five Guys. Sometimes we go to LaPaz in the late afternoon and just order appetizers. Even That Cuban Place, which we love, is too expensive for the six of us. I wouldn’t mind a little inexpensive pizza place or hot dog place just to feed the kids when we are walking around. And yes, there are lots of families with kids downtown…just not in restaurants because we can’t afford it, LOL!
Beth,
If you are looking for a pizza or hot dog place, try pretzel creations right past the knife shop. They have both!
I agree that due the current economic conditions, we need more affordable food options downtown. I do not believe, however, that we should invite any food chains north of the creek. With the exception of Starbucks, all of the chains are on the Promenade, and there they should stay.
For your information, Chipotle is still bad for you. Just because it’s not as bad as McDonalds’ or similar doesn’t mean it’s not bad for you. We shouldn’t be feeding our kids this garbage.
I think Beth is right that there should be a pizza by the slice type place (NOT Pretzel and Pizza, which charges way too much $$) or maybe a hot dog type place (The beer store on the corner of Mkt and 2nd sells hotdogs for a buck or two on Thursday-Saturday). But I know that landlords are charging way too much money for these businesses to stay in business without charging exorbitant prices for their products.
Oh, there is a great little convenience store on the 300 block of Market street. We go there all the time for the basics, and they are super friendly.
What we need is community leadership and building owners who truly identify with the needs of the community. Then, businesses wouldn’t have to turn such a huge profit simply to remain where they are.
I say NO food CHAINS downtown (north of the creek)
I am all for upscale retail chains. Maybe that’s a double standard, but whatever. The Paulo Vista men’s store charges $75 for a regalar shirt. I can’t afford that. Bring on Banana Republic!
One thing I will congratulate the ‘group of officials’ for is this: going to visit other cities who have had success. Sometimes in the past Frederick officials have been narrow-minded about solutions. My husband has often commented over the years, “you know, there has to be a bigger ‘brain trust’ outside Frederick County from which we could draw, others who have found solutions to the problems we face.” I, for one, would love to model our downtown after aspects of Alexandria, or Georgetown, or other cities.
The only thing I can imagine being trouble is the ban on first-floor residential…that might be a fight waiting to happen with some owners.
Uh Eli, “for your information” when I eat at Chipolte I have the crispy tacos, black beans, fresh tomato salsa, corn salsa and lettuce. The only “bad” part of that is the taco shells and I’ll take them any day over fried choices at more traditional fast food places. Or the processed pseduo Mexican food at some of the local independants. Or a hot dog stand. I know what you are saying about chains, but I think the argument here is, if it is done, a chain like a Chipolte’s (which keeps food fresh and simple, supports organic suppliers like Niman’s pork) is preferable to mcsandwiches. As for limiting chains to the creek, the North End of Market desperately development, –we’re all excited for Cakes for Cause to open next year. And now I am hungry.
I would love to see a Clydes along the Creek….Banana Republic and J. Crew would be awesome. I would also like to a J. Pauls or a Dave and Busters! Now that woudl ROCK!
Banana Republic seems to be on the Wish List of many contributors here. Wonder if Frederick even exists on their corporate radar screen.
I’m not the biggest fan of Chipotle (owned by Mickey D’s by the way) and can easily visit the one in Westview Promenade when the spirit moves me. But it does seem like the type of more affordable food alternative many folks would welcome downtown.
Sheri/Cookingmom, Trader Joe’s has been mentioned here a number of times, especially by those who’d like to see a grocery store downtown. BUT it’s been pointed out that Trader Joes looked at locating here (not sure how recently) and–as crazy as it may seem–concluded that Frederick didn’t meet its demographic requirements. As a big Trader Joe’s fan, while I’m not sure about a downtown location, I think they’re missing a great opportunity to open somewhere else in the Frederick or Urbana area.
McDonald’s sold their investment in Chipotle in 2006. But more importantly, how do we voice these interests to the city r.e. downtown development? I know there is a planning meeting on the first (I think) Sat in Nov that is open to the public.
Hey Anonymous….So McDonald’s is no longer associated with Chipotle, which is probably better for Chipotle!
Re the planning meeting you refer to…if I understand you correctly and it’s indeed on the first Saturday (?) in November, that’s day after tomorrow! Seems like a good chance for the public to hear directly what the decision makers are thinking, and (hopefully) give them direct feedback on what WE’RE thinking in terms of shaping downtown development. I wonder what kind of public turnout these meetings get.
I had date wrong–it’s next Sat
http://www.cityoffrederick.com/sql/press/mediaadvisory.php?ID=553
and from what I know of the last one not that well attended–I don’t think the city publicizes them as well as they could–
maybe this one will be different now that it’s posted here! Hope everyone here can attend–for a little bit at least.
I have heard that Frederick is on Banana Republic’s radar. I must agree that Trader Joe’s is missing an opportunity here anywhere in Frederick.
Yes, we need a Trader Joe’s!
May it’d help if more people requested Frederick as one of their locations here:
http://www.traderjoes.com/contact_us_selection.html
I’m also happy to see the new ALDI store open up on 40 – good quality food for really good prices – ALDI actually owns Trader Joe’s.